NCR18650B - The Future of RC Aircraft Batteries?

by MyGeekShow | March 8, 2014 | (29) Posted in Projects



NCR18650B: A Lithium Ion battery with a ton of promise! People say it has twice the energy per gram as LiPos... but is that true? Lets test it!

But it doesn't stop there! I want to know how to actually use this on an RC Aircraft, how to charge it, what it's maximum amp draw is, how many watt hours of power does it have, and in the end, can you actually use these on RC aircraft?

I think I've found the answers to these questions!

Battery: Panasonic NCR18650B
Grams per Watt Hours is 57% that of a typical LiPo
Pack Capacity: 3.3Ah (3,325mah)
Pack Voltage in 4S: 14.4v
Pack Power: 43 watt hours (personally tested with a watt meter)
Pack C-Rating: 2 (6amp max discharge rate)
Pack Cycles: Hundreds! I've not personally tested this, but this is the same chemistry as an iPhone, which can last years of daily use.

Buy the battery pack here: http://store.mygeekshow.com/product-p/3.3a-4s-2c-battery.htm

See you next week!

-Trent 

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Endurance Flight: 62 Minutes/72km/44mi

by MyGeekShow

COMMENTS

Sirglider on March 8, 2014
Very interesting article Trent! Thanks for sharing!
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MyGeekShow on March 8, 2014
Thank you for the feedback and for watching! It took almost a month of research and testing... but I'm happy with the result.
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eagle4 on March 8, 2014
wow very cool mate. I wonder why companies arent jumping on this tech if they can produce a battery that has twice the power for the same weight? also whats the costing of these batteries? at the end you compared it in weight to the 2200mah 3s battery. I'd be keen to know if the price of the lipo is much cheaper than your home made setup.
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MyGeekShow on March 8, 2014
It does surprise me as well that there isn't more out there about these. They aren't cheap, almost twice as much as LiPos, but their performance is outstanding. Two of these LiPos (including shipping from HK) would be about $25. The Li-Ion pack would cost about $50 or $60 to put together (with genuine Panasonics). So you pay for what you get.
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Drezed on March 8, 2014
I think the biggest issue is the low C rating. To get the amps typically used for RC planes, you will have to add the the capacity. At that point you lose the weight advantage the energy density gives you. When it comes to power to weight, Lipo is still the best thing going. If these batteries can get 10c or above, that would make them competitive.

Jeff
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MyGeekShow on March 8, 2014
I'll add this pack to my Raptor100 and give it a real life test next week. I'm thinking that 2C is really a conservative number. Also, it really depends on what kind of flying you are interested in. If you just want to cruise around or are looking for endurance flights, than these batteries are easily sufficient. Good stuff!
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Spikee on March 8, 2014
Running a higher voltage system (4,5,6 cells) will solve the C issue.
6S1P would be able to deliver 171 W continuous.

Still for lower voltage setups you could look at the Panasonic CGR18650CH Li-on cell. This one can deliver up to 10C.
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Spikee on March 8, 2014
I meant to say that the CGR18650CH can deliver up to 10A per cell.
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Darwil on March 8, 2014
Quite agree with you there, I don't have a model that would work with that C rating!
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MyGeekShow on March 8, 2014
A single pack may be too insufficient, but as the Raptor140C will carry a large capacity, the C rating won't be an issue. The 140C will be getting 7 of these packs, and at 3C, they could output 60A at 14.4V or 855W, WAAAAYYYY more (6x!) than the 140C uses at cruise (it uses 144w).
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Darwil on March 8, 2014
OK, I agree that with a purpose designed model it is possible but with any of mine if I were to uprate the capacity to get adequate C rating they would be so over weight they wouldn't be nice to fly. At the moment my favourite model ( Petit Chelem ) is on 1500mah 4S 70C work it out what I would need; plus the obvious problem of where would I put the batteries and what would happen to the cog?
Not knocking your ideas but there is an obvious limitation!
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MyGeekShow on March 8, 2014
I'm with you on that! I guess we'll see when I use em!
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Epitaph on March 10, 2014
True, but they would be fantastic to make a pack for using on your transmitter!!
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Darwil on March 8, 2014
If this gets sorted out and developed to the extent we would like it to this would be our utopia!
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2013/08/130821-supercapacitors/
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MyGeekShow on March 8, 2014
That is some impressive and promising technology... I'm confident it will happen soon! Technology has been changing our hobby at an incredible pace...
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Foam Addict on March 9, 2014
This looks very similar to the Nicd to Lipo jump about 15 years ago. Lipos had a really low C rate, but light weight and high power capacity.
Give them some time, they might just surpass Lipos in a few years.
You might be surprised what you can do with a lightweight aircraft drawing 6 amps. Give it a shot.
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MyGeekShow on March 11, 2014
Totally agree... give it time, it will get there sooner than later.
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Sirglider on March 10, 2014
One question: if you put the packs in parallel, you would have the same output voltage, but you could draw alltogether more amps, no? 6A from 4packs in parallel would give a good 24A. Or am I wrong?
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MyGeekShow on March 11, 2014
You're correct! I look at it as a total watt/hours calculation, it helps keep the numbers from getting too crazy. So, if my airplane draws 100 watts (9A at 11.1v) and my pack carries 24 watt/hours (2.2Ah at 11.1v) then I'm drawing 4C on the pack. That would also mean my pack would last about 0.24 hours, or 15 minutes.
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mark d on March 11, 2014
What was the actual mAH the cells tested to? I have 18650 cells that are labeled up to 4400 mAH but test out to about 2200 at 1C. Why not just cycle the pack on the Turnigy charger and it will list the WH? You cannot take the capacity and simply multiply by the nominal voltage to get the WH, You would need to solve the differential equation based on the voltage curve at a constant load or let the software in the charger give a close approximation.
Lithium polymer / Lithium Ion are the same chemistry the difference is the packaging; Ion with metal and poly with the plastic which is why we switched to the polys 10+ years ago. You can trade C rating for capacity with a constant weight.
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MyGeekShow on March 11, 2014
You are exactly right! You can't just take the V*A=WH. That's why I drained both the LiPo and the Li-Ion pack to the lowest voltage and kept the watt meter tracking watt hours. That is interesting about the packaging... I wasn't aware of the driving difference.
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jburnett81 on December 22, 2015
Tried to buy some from you but your site seems to be down. Is that a permanent thing?
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danallen82 on March 11, 2014
Great research and testing! If you pack 12x of these (4S3P) then maybe it would be enough for a light quadcopter. But thats one pricey battery pack. If only they made these flat and cheaper. I hope that lithium air batteries will be here sooner than these getting cheaper =).
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VAND3R on March 13, 2014
I have flat li-ion cells, I am using them for my gamecube portable though as the high c rating is not needed in that application.
I may decide to make a cylidrical pack when i get some balance connectors though and do some testing
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MikeJWms on March 13, 2014
I think I've seen user End_of_Days over on RCG use these in his duration quadcopters. He's able to get some ridiculous flight times using higher voltage (lower current) setups on his ultra light aircraft. I'm happy to see others experiment with these batteries; they aren't for everyone, but they do have a lot of promise for duration applications. They are defiantly on my list of things to play with. Thanks for posting, Trent!
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SuarezLuis on March 27, 2014
It would be nice to see this experiment with super-capacitors.
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xan326 on June 15, 2014
These look amazing, and only about $17 for a pair plus $5 shipping from Amazon isn't that bad. Flying the Raptor 100 for the same time with half the battery weight. The Turnigy 5000mah 3s (shown in the video) is $30 plus however much HobbyKing charges on shipping. That's basically same power for half the weight and approximately three quarters of the price once you get the other parts to make a pack. Investment is a great idea, especially considering Li-Ion last a remarkably long time, I have a phone going on 6 years old on Li-Ion and the charge is the same after continuous use after all these years.
Now in a plane, would it possible to break past a 1:1 power to weight ratio, while having a good flight time? If it's possible, that would be great and possibly break records. Now I want to know how many of these you can hook up together, and what the most beneficial setup is.
I'm glad there's this alternative now since I don't trust Li-Poly very much. Most dangerous batteries I've ever handled. And with Li-Ion, can't you go past the 80% usage?
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Yogenh on July 6, 2014
I don't know much about batteries bout this dose sound so good. I think that I would like to get into some of them. If I could get the same power when flying my planes. I really would like to know how all of that works out. So keep it all going
Thanks Paul
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renbo on July 14, 2014
I've been thinking about Li-Ion batteries as I contemplate doing a build myself. I know enough about electronics to get into trouble, but I was pondering this concept:

1. Start with a standard LiPo pack. Build some sort of monitoring device onboard that records the current draw through several flights, collecting the actual data over time for a while to get an idea of the usage patterns.

2. Add a 2nd Li-Ion pack to the platform, and size it so that if you took it's mAh in ratio to the LiPo mAh, you end up with the same general ratio of time spent in flight where high current draw is needed vs. lower current draw that a Li-Ion pack could handle.

3. Build a small custom controller board that senses voltage and current draw and switches load from one pack to the other in response to the level of current load at any given moment. The data from step one could be used to tailor the firmware on this board to react to the conditions previously recorded.

Other thoughts: The controller board might also have a bank of caps that could help buffer the load switching between the packs. Also, in step 2, one could lean towards slightly more LiPo than Li-Ion, so it would be more likely to deplete the Li-Ion first, then switch to LiPo for end-of-flight and perhaps sound an alarm or beacon to indicate near-discharge. This would leave the craft with maximum maneuverability near the end for a more hasty and agile return to home.

Might this type of configuration buy the best of both worlds? Just a tinkerer's thoughts.
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jakeruebel on December 21, 2014
How are these wired up to charge with a balance port?
And the C rating is what?
I'm using a 5600 mah pack 4s weight is 433 grams I hover at 16 -17 amps
trying to do the math on weight per amperage.

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sciallo on January 28, 2015
Definitely something worth "playing" with.
I've been reading more than I want to about Li-Ion batteries, it turns out there is a lot of different kinds... Great article at http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
I see one on amazon, "Efest Purple IMR 35A 18650 2500mAh 3.7v Rechargeable" that while a bit lower on the mAh, claims a 35A high discharge rate... any thoughts?
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zelo533 on April 15, 2015
Those efest batteries are fake, the real discharge rate is 12-15A. But... i have good news! check out samsung's 25r's i got 6 of them today. Im building a 250 dron and i wanted 18650's. Those samsungs have a constant discharge rate of 22a and 30 burst(1s) 2500mah,
im planning to make a 3s with it. It'll weigh about 160grams, im also thinking of a 3s2p, but with panasonics ncr18650b's. that way i'd have a ~15A 7800mah battery weighing in at 320grams, but think of the flight times on a 250mm! with the 22a samsungs im expecting 10-12min and
with the samsung 20+minutes!
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NCR18650B - The Future of RC Aircraft Batteries?

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